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Microsoft Power Platform: Business solutions must-have or DIY free-for-all?
You’ll know by now that we love the functionality Microsoft Power Platform can bring to your business solutions. But without a proper strategy for Power Platform uses, you can hit some issues. Jason and Liam are exploring how the products have matured over the years, and with 36 million active users, its clear value is being noticed in its functionality. We agree it’s a pretty powerful solution when used correctly. But as Liam explains, much like with DIY projects, you can get the right tools for the job but if you don’t know what you’re doing things can go downhill pretty quickly!
- Welcome to another episode of Tecman Talks Dynamics. I'm Liam and I'm joined by my colleague who heads up our CRM and Power Platform team, Jason Tromans.
- Hello.
- And today we are going to have a little chat around Power Platform, focus on that today. And predominantly Power Platform's been around or probably that name's been around for what, a couple of years now? Two, three years. Some of the products a little bit longer.
- Yep.
- But obviously this idea of a low code or a no code, it's probably a little bit of a stretch, but a low code solution for a lot of end users, developers, whatever you want to call them, to take some of those tools and build off our core products. Has been fantastic. But they've always been quite new products. There's been some gaps, some concerns around how certain things are done.
- Yep.
- And we're starting to see the products mature now and I know you were off... We're recording this really early in July '23, and you were off a couple of weeks ago at a conference over in Dublin.
- Yep.
- All about the Power Platform, nothing but the Power Platform.
- It was, yeah.
- And you came back quite enthusiastic about some of the changes that we're seeing in the product.
- Yep.
- And so we thought we'd have a little chat around that. So is there a general overview of the conference that you could just sum it up?
- So it's the second time that this conference has ran. It's called the European Power Platform Conference. It's ran by a team that have historically done a lot around Azure SharePoint type conferences. And I think get good attendances. But from our point of view, we thought that... They did it for the first time last year, got about 500ish people attend. We didn't go. And this year we thought, do you know what it's probably... We should go explore what that conference does and what the content is to see if we can take some nuggets of knowledge to go. And there were some people from Microsoft attending, so Charles, obviously who heads kind of the whole of Power Platform for Microsoft. April, who... He's kind of bigger range, kind of Power automate and flow. So there's a good few people that flew over from Redmond in Microsoft and those that don't know, that's kind of where Microsoft kind of are based kind of from a HQ point of view to where a lot of the kind of the key people are. So they flew over, we spent kind of four days, three, four days in Dublin. Took one of the team as well with us. We did a workshop day to start off with, learned a little bit more hands-on kind of workshops experience, kind of learning some of the build techniques of certain areas that maybe we hadn't spent too much time looking at already. And then two full days of kind of traditional conference. Now I guess the headlines are last year was 500 people, just over 500 people that attended. This year, just over 1200 people attended. And that was across 41 countries. And there was a mix of partners like us and then there was also probably a number of end users. And I'll probably say where they're probably quite large organisations as well that they've taken the time to say, do you know what, I'm gonna send my business systems team and web business analysts to see, go and explore more of the Power Platform. Or they're already signed to use a , how do we kind of learn kind of best practises and stuff like that. So it was well attended. The sessions were ran by MVPs, by Microsoft, by people in the community and stuff like that. So there was a lot of stuff ongoing. Microsoft did the keynotes and the keynote on the main first conference day was led by Charles. And from our point of view, obviously the big thing is that, I can't remember the exact number, I wanna say something like 36 million or something like that, active Power Platform users every single day.
- Wow.
- Now that's not organisations, that's people, that's individual licences and stuff like that. But that's huge. But as Microsoft said that they've hardly touched the surface yet with it. So I think the other thing to note, the world of AI. We've talked a lot about other podcasts and AI and ChatGBT and all that kind of stuff. That's a big thing in the Power Platform, making that work for you with kind of AI models whether it's open AI or you can create your own now. But I think more than anything, is that what you are starting to see, especially with the toolkit in the Power Platform, is you're starting to see a level of maturity. And I think that sounds a little bit strange given the product and the tools are still so new. But there is a level of, well, hold on a second, a traditional first party biz apps have got these sets of functionalities, these controls, these best practises. Well why hasn't Power Platform got it? And I think what was reemphasized more than anything as one of the key messages of the conference was the these aren't toys. It's not a have a go, see what you can do, go report to somebody else in the business and if it works, great. If it doesn't, don't worry about it. At the end of the day, it's a platform inside of your organization's environment that needs to make a difference and has impact on no matter what you do. So it's designed to be a tool and a toolkit, not a toy for people to have a play with.
- Okay, so it's not like a hobbyist-
- No.
- And it is something that can bring value to the business.
- And that's where we've talked about a little bit previously where we've talked a little bit about the citizen developer bit. What is a citizen developer? And what does that mean to an organisation that's using the Power Platform? You mentioned at the start, Power Platform, it's no code, low code. Well actually, if you look at the conference a couple of weeks ago, it's got at the end of it, low code, no code, pro code.
- Right, okay.
- So Microsoft is saying that, hold on a second, this isn't... They aren't like tracking a little bit on this low code, no code piece. It is a proper kind of system tool.
- But I guess it's a tool that a lot of people can turn their hand to.
- Yes.
- As someone who thinks in a particular way, a logical way, you could create something fairly easy and comfortable.
- Yep.
- But if you want to use that tool set to be a full-time developer or someone who can have those skills, you can take what's in the toolbox and really build something that's incredibly functional.
- Yep.
- Now we're talking about it'll have the governance and the controls around it that you would need.
- Yep.
- And as you'd expect probably from a development tool. So I guess it's like if you're going buy a power tool or something from a DIY shop. If you've not got the skillset set to use it, you might be able to drill a hole in the wall or you might be able to do something way better as well. So the tool can do way more than maybe the average person, but you can at least get some benefit from it.
- Absolutely. And I think the idea is that it's starting to get to the point where businesses, people, are starting to understand with the information that's out there, with the community that's available, in kind of the forums that Microsoft provide, social media in terms of Twitter space, LinkedIn, et cetera, and as well as these conferences now. The knowledge share that you've probably seen with the biz app space, with Business Central, with CRM, with FNO or finance supply chain management, et cetera, that have been there now and quite established for a period of time. Power Platform is very much kind of getting to that point where there is that true community where... And belief that this is a platform that wasn't just a flash in the pan and wasn't just a, oh well maybe, but it doesn't really fit the bill. So it sounds nice but we don't do it.
- A couple of questions, just roll back. You mentioned I think it's 36 million active users. So to clarify, clients as a active user, is that to consume the data or is that creators of apps? I assume you need a licence to consume don't you as well?
- That be both. So how the Power Platform technically works is that whether you are consuming that tool as part of your daily work or that daily workflow.
- It could be you're using an app that sort-
- Yeah, or you're using an app, et cetera. The thing with the Power Platform is that those licences, you can, with a Power automatic licence, with a Power app licence, with a Power Page licence, there's different types of how it all works. But a lot of the time it's like, well if I've got the licence I can not only just use it and consume it, I can make it at the same time. And then that just becomes permission level of what you can or should and shouldn't do.
- Okay, so that one's clarified. That makes sense. The other big question I always think pops up around Power Platform, especially now you're saying you're getting more complexity in the toolset is when's the right time to use Power Platform, when should we be using maybe the Corebiz app, whether it's CRM, Business Central. Is that defined or is that open to some level of interpretation?
- I still say, well it is definitely open to a level of interpretation and I think it will remain as a level of interpretation. There are people... So I'll say there are probably traditional finance and supply chain management, Business Central partners. I'll park CRM for a moment. Those partners that if they don't do Power Platform today or they don't do CRM and that's all that they do, they will probably continue just to use traditional code for those tools and develop inside of those tools opposed to looking at Power Platform of what that can do. If you're a CRM partner and you do BC et cetera, well you are using a lot of the Power Platform anyway. You are using kind of rules, model driven apps. You are potentially using CRM Canvas apps with it as well, using Power Automate. To an extent, like I said before, CRM and Power Platform are kind of very much kind of the same thing in terms of the toolkit that you've got available. I think in terms of training the business case of what do we do, there will always be a case of do I use Business Central or do I operate in the Power Platform. Do I use a third party tool or do I do it in the Power Platform? There is always that danger that there is a tool out there you can buy on an app store, et cetera. And then there is an inkling that someone else in your organisation sit there going, well actually I'd rather go and develop that myself. You've gotta have a proper return on investment and a reason why you'd go and create something that's already out there that's a bit more standard because otherwise all you're gonna create is a lot of technical debt. And from that perspective, there's gotta be business certification. So I think it's still open to interpretation, but I think what you're doing is when this Power Platform toolkit now or has been, it can work very well with the rest of your business applications, is that it isn't a case of I've gotta do that over here, this over here. It's a case of actually I can just extend what I need inside of Business Central, and use the Power Platform to do it for me. And I can write rules, logic, et cetera. And I can be flexible with how I do it. And I can take it to market that way opposed to having to get a traditional developer to go and sit in code in Business Central. Now I'll be clear, in Power Platform, you've got to have a technical mindset to go and create flows, et cetera. It's not just a standard end user to go do it. You've got to have a technical kind of mindset and capability to do it. But at the the same time, you don't have to be a full kind of developer that's sitting writing kind of Visual Studio Code and stuff like that every day. Whereas the platform can allow it. But the idea is that you don't have to go that far. Now I think from my point of view, the platform is maturing enough and has to mature. So going back to your point where you were talking about how many users, well at that level of users, we've got to have a level of best practise and governance. Without it, well it's gonna cause Microsoft an absolute mayhem for their platforms and managing those platforms in the background, but in terms of the whole business, well how do you manage it in terms of your business where people have got this app, that app, the other app, and who should be using what and why should they be using et cetera. And I think that's where a lot of the theme of the conference as well and the message of the conference is what are the best practises that you want to put into place?
- Yeah. Well let's move on to that. 'Cause you talked about the products maturing and I guess one of the big drivers and those arguments to keep stuff within the Corebiz app was you had all these controls that weren't out there. So what's been added that you think is beneficial and gives a reason to maybe look at Power apps to do certain things?
- I think in terms of some of the stuff that's been added that helps with the governance and the management and some of those pieces. Managing environments are one thing that they're trying to put in the tool, well, they now have, that talks about kind of usage rights, licence reports, solution checkers, how you build kind of Power apps and what you're allowed to do in the environment and what you can then put it with. The reality as well in terms of on the governance and the management on top of that is what they're starting to give a level of that works with other tools and other applications that adds a level of control is that kind of monitor and performance piece, I think.
- What so if something's running slow, you can pinpoint what, is that what you're talking about performance?
- It's not as far as what I call telemetry that you're getting with Business Central at this moment in time you. It will tell you...
- Let's forget that telemetry has only really been in Business Central probably the last three or four years.
- Yeah, there is a level that it will say how long the flows have taken to run. Now you've probably gotta look at the average flows over period of time to understand whether that's quick or slow from that perspective. So you've gotta probably take some history to understand, well, has it degraded over a period of time. Now Microsoft are trying to bring out kind of more functionality that you can create logs that last a longer period of time. So you can start to create trends and analysis, say. Well actually is my Power Platform degrading performance-wise over a period of time. There's also kind of tips and tricks of how you make sure apps don't run slow. 'Cause the idea is it's very easy to go... You sit and read about, I can create an app for visitor system, I can create an app for a field engineer, I can... Et cetera. You go create it, you point at some tables, you do et cetera. Oh yeah, there you go. Then all of a sudden you expose it to 20 people. You expose it to 100 people. And you don't think, actually, what I should have done is built it a slightly different way to think about the performance. Obviously with a first party app, Microsoft already kind of architected it in a way that it scales.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- Whereas your app, your piece of functionality that you are creating, what have you done to consider your...
- Make it as efficient as possible.
- And most people haven't today. They've just gone, I'll build it and there you go, I've created you something. And they've not thought about those types of things. So Microsoft are trying to give you more I guess tools that more or less sits in the background of the Power Platform that isn't the sexy stuff that people say, oh look how cool this is. It's probably more cool stuff for people like us to say, well actually we can think about what you're doing that's good and what you're doing that actually needs to be revisited because you're gonna cause yourself some pain. Now we've seen pain on performance things massively in Business Central over the years and NAV and the old AXE and the old traditional CRM. If you do things in the wrong way, you will hinder your system. Power Platform's no different to that. But the idea is that because it's been hard and you've just been given this talk of no code, low code, it's just get off and do it, I don't think there's been a mindset to say you need to think about what you're doing. And I think that was a lot of the messaging from the conference. You need to think about what you're doing because whatever you do does have an impact.
- Okay well let's push onto an individual... One of the Power apps, which is Power Automate.
- Yep.
- And can we give some examples of things that they've improved on that which is gonna help?
- So right now, they've obviously added comments recently. It's been about a little while. So you can add comments to what your flows are doing.
- So would that appear... So if someone's looking at your code later, there's there's some dialogue around it.
- Yeah. Within the flow and the steps, you can add comments within. So you can say what it's doing because otherwise all you're doing is looking at kind of schema conditions, loops, filters, et cetera, and you don't really understand what it's doing. Those comments can add context to say within the tool, the app, et cetera that you're using it with, this step is doing this bit in the system.
- Okay.
- So it's a bit like a developer like commenting code to an extent. This is what's happening. So from a support perspective, it's easy to look back at if someone else has gotta pick up your flow that no one else has touched previously. And then off the backend of that, they have also now going to introduce between August and September a couple of things which will come into, I think it's public preview, but we get our hands on it. Firstly, versioning. Bit like, think like SharePoint or you create a piece of code in another system and you take copy of that code, you version it and the idea is you've always got that previous version available that you can roll back to if necessary. Currently today in power automating workflows, you don't have that.
- Or you'd have seven completely separate naming and then bring it back-
- You have to kind more or less create a completely different flow and then go do you know what... But versioning, we hope that you're gonna be able to kind of roll back between versions as well. So the idea is if that flow, you put like ah, broke something, we'll roll back to a previous version that that we know did work, just didn't have the-
- Quick solution.
- So that's coming. Also the ability... There's this concept and it's very loose at this moment in time, but monitoring performance of flows. So they're talking about kind of being able to give you an insight into the kind of management area of Power Platform that gives you some insights to how your flows are performing. Which goes back to a point that you made earlier. Bit like going to long running flows, what's good, what's bad, what you need to do something, work around. At this moment in time is that that's lacking. You can go create, but unless you go and create your own kind of flow management flow, well you don't really have that much in the background. And I think the idea is that I can only assume that partners as well as Microsoft are getting lots of queries to say, well why has that now gone slower? Why is this working like this? It never used to be like that. Now this is giving you the ability to pinpoint it and actually diagnose it and support it and do something about it. That's the start of it. And then also that comes hand in hand with Microsoft doing log retentions. So by default, unless you save it elsewhere, Power Automate will log your flows, your history for 28 days and then they delete it. They don't want it on their platform. They're not gonna just include it free of charging. They can't stand the licence. They go, well do you know what? Now we're gonna give you the ability to put it in a separate retention area. I'm sure Microsoft will find a way to charge you for that storage, but the idea is that you then can just do... That will help with your monetary performance and your analytics over time.
- Yeah, 'cause you go backwards.
- So it is a... Power Automate I think is probably getting a lot more of the... As well as the overall environment you can turn to be managed, Power Automate is getting a lot around kind of best practise, in my view, around what you should and shouldn't do and tools to help you analyse and stuff like that. Because very much it is the workflow tool that is cross application. So whether it's talking just into the CRM, CRM to BC is talking to BC and Word is talking to BC and Excel is talking to BC and Shopify, whatever it is, because that tool is just going to be everywhere.
- They're still releasing lots of connectors for different-
- Yeah, absolutely. There are lots of connectors and you can go create your own connector. So the platform is kind of, as long as you've got a REST API where you're connecting it to, Power Automate goes, yeah, no problem. I can create that. I can go pull, push data. Unchange, delete, whatever you want it to do. I say, in principle. It's very flexible. So with that being able to be used arguably in lots of places, my view is that that's why Microsoft is spending so much time doing a bit more governance around it.
- Okay, okay. So Power Automate's had quite a lot put in it. Anything else around Power Pages or...
- Power Pages. So it's a bit of a techy one what we learned at the conference. And it was coming anyway, but bootstrap is kind of the... In terms of like the styling technique from a web design developer point of view. And currently Power Pages are on an older version. And it's going to go to... And Microsoft are gonna bring it up to what the community and typical kind of bootstrap people are used to in bootstrap version five, which brings with the updated features but also brings Microsoft up to the level that they should be at. Now that's gonna be available we believe over the summer months, but it means that anybody that's on it, it's not just a point, click, there you go. I'm now at the next one. There might be conflicts as you go through to kind of take your current system, your current Power Pages website tool portal from one version to the other version.
- So is that a design?
- It's the design, yeah. It's the layout. It's the ability... It's kind of liquid, et cetera. It's the ability to what CSS Style Sheets, et cetera. It's what the look and feel of the skins of what those web pages, those portals look like essentially. And bootstrap V5 is kind of the latest version of that styling technique.
- Okay, okay. So we'll move on down. Is there anything else in terms of the individual apps or...
- The only one thing for me, and one big thing that came out the conference as well that what we took out and learned a little bit more that will help us as a partner as well is how to make apps look a little bit sexier. Because Power Apps you can create no problem at all. Create a table, create a page. You can see it on your phone or your tablet or whatever. And it talks back to whatever you want it talk back to and it's functional, but historically, it's looked a bit naff. Very kind of block, clunky looking. Even though it's functional and it works well, clunky looking. Now there are creator kits available. There's plenty of styling techniques that people are now starting to share with the community and stuff like that to... And kind of make it very kind of Google kind of orientated as well in terms of like the soft boxes and the ticks and the crosses and the colouring schemes and the kind of like transparent glass frontend on the buttons and stuff like that. There is now lots of techniques available to go and do it. Now we've gotta sit there and go, we can spend ages playing to make it look lovely, but our customers aren't gonna spend lots of time paying us to make it look lovely. But I think now we're at a point where the tool is functional but we also need to make it look a bit better. And we've probably got more tools available now and more resource available now than we've had previously. And even in the early days, it was typically going back to style sheets and stuff like that that you'd have to overlay onto your Power apps. Now you don't always have to go and do that. There are components and things inside of the... Available in the community and available just out of the Power platform that actually you don't need a web developer or you don't need a style sheet to make it look nice.
- So one of the other things you'd mentioned before we sat down today, which probably speaks to our wider audience who are traditionally used our Business Central episodes on Tecman Talks, I know. Something has also been released around those triggers. I know this was not at the conference, this thing in the last 24 hours.
- Yeah, this was yesterday evening on Twitter.
- I did see you retweet it so I thought I'd throw it in there.
- Oh, thanks.
- No preparation, you can give me what's going on there.
- So Business Central has this concept called "Events". It's a bit like a workflow. The idea is something happens and do something. So business events in Business Central, you can create some custom ones but then there are also some standard ones that Business Central and Microsoft allow you to do. So upon an event happening, this business event triggers. Now what you're going to be able to do now is you're going to be able to connect Power Automate to that. And as a result of Power Automate connecting to it, it can go do something. I.e. go notify, go send a message, go do something, go update CRM and put that order record or that shipment record to complete. Go and... Dare I say, you connect your custom trigger and you ship a product at the warehouse. You then connect with kind of a shipping agent integration or you connect it to a courier. That courier returns you back a tracking number. Goes into a specific field inside a Business Central against that shipment, that shipment's posted. Shipment posted, trigger goes, trigger says, post, no problem at all. Power Automate runs. Well if that field of tracking number contains data, go pull the field which says what the courier was, go pull that tracking number and send the customer an email, with that message. Or even better still, with Power Automate connect it to a text message service and send the customer a text message. How used are we, personal lives, when something gets shipped from an online website that we've gone to that we get a text message saying it's been picked, it will be with you so and so, or Hermes have now or Evri or DPD have now got your post and it will be delivered between da da da and da da da. The idea is that we're not gonna get to that level 'cause we don't know the time scales, but we can say as a customer going, it's now left our premises and it's with you. Again, that whole customer journey piece enabled better with these kind of triggers.
- It shows like our personal life where we've got used to, as you said, having that tracking ability. We wanna know that it's coming. Is now coming into the business. It becomes normal doesn't it and expected. So that's available...
- In principle, that's starting to be available roughly about now, as the the latest updates I believe from Microsoft in terms of their monthly updates go through. I believe those business event triggers is about to be available with the Power Automate connector.
- So again, we're seeing that... You talked right at the beginning as we start to wrap up that maturity of the apps that we are seeing Microsoft continue to invest in launching these business event triggers where.. In certain biz apps that we can then hook straight into the Power app platform.
- Yes. And I think it's a... Going back to your point where its case of the areas and the reasons and the business case of why you use it or how you use the platform. I think Microsoft aren't defining exactly when and how you should use it. That is still the decision of the customer, the partner like us to help customers educate of what you should use it for. But with Microsoft doing things like this around the triggers in Business Central, it allows people to go away and think, oh, could it... I've never been able to do that really before unless I go and write a load of code. Now I've still gotta go create a flow and a trigger and all that kind of stuff to make it work. But it starts to kind of bring kind of these ideas front and centre line. Go, can I? And we go, yeah you can. And I think from our perspective, the maturity across the tools and then the expansion of the tools going into more areas and more capability in things like Business Central is sitting there going, the Power Platform isn't just something that sits on the side and you've got Business Central here. Power Platform you could argue is layered whether you wanna say on top or underneath of Business Central. And you are using that platform to help enhance and give a better experience to a user, but also ultimately your customer experience as well. So it is very much kind of going hand in hand with each other to say, well if you're not using the Power Platform with Business Central, you're probably already behind the times. It's a bit like if you weren't using Power Platform with CRM three years ago, you're behind the times.
- So we know there's huge demand and interest in this. We ran an event six weeks ago or whatever for our Techman customers. And we had around 64 people come. We had to close the bookings and they nearly all turned up, which is quite unusual for an event. You normally get quite a high dropout. We saw a load of enthusiasm there and loads of questions. Microsoft were here presenting. So we know the interest is there. We know that the product continues to evolve, mature, become a better solution. Obviously from your team's point of view, we know for our customers, we're more than happy to have those conversations where it's going. We've also got a couple more events coming up in October. We've got our customer day, which we do every year, but we were extending that by a second day this year where we're doing more technical and deep dives, hands on, bring your laptops, longer sessions, 90 minutes or whatever. I'm sure there's gonna be some Power Platform content over both days.
- Yep.
- Course that's for Techman customers. We'll throw that out there. Save the date, will be going out this week or two. So that's good. So we're trying to help customers and end users...
- ...Create those business cases as well.
- Yeah, create the business case, get the benefits. We know there's... I mean, we were talking about this, there's the planning beforehand about why are we doing this? Like you said, don't just dive in. What's the licence implication? We talked about content creators or consumers that you need a licence so we can help with the... Making sure you've got the locked licence correct. And we've got it in the most efficient way of doing it so it's saving you money. 'Cause Microsoft have improved the licences. I know we've done this already on a podcast.
- They have.
- Power Pages has improved definitely, hasn't it?
- Yeah. Power Pages. They've improved kind of power ups is that they... Again, I know Microsoft have updated their kind of pricing and done the 9% kind of price alignment stuff, but even if you state that, they lowered the cost of Power apps as well in the past kind of 12 months or so. So the ease to market from a cost point of view when it comes to the Power Platform, the barrier is actually quite low from a licenced cost point of view. It's the cost of of getting to the point that you truly understand what you want to achieve. Because again, you need that given path. And I think every organisation, these people and partners need to work collaborative to create that kind of roadmap. It's no different to, like I say, first party true Bizup system. You create a roadmap of what you want to ultimately achieve and if you can't outline that, then you're going to create a bit of a spaghetti of a mess. But I think from our point of view, we're already starting to see a... Even since that event for our Power Platform customer day, we've already got one customer that has worked with us and we've sat working with them because they wanted to take on some of it as well, around starting to think about how they take a quote to an approval outside of Business Central into approval process. But they also need to do some additional checks and checks and balances I guess, of that quote. It's not just a yes or a no based on the margin. It's a, I need to fill out the incident information, I need to check what products are on there. It was medical based industry so they've got some additional process to go through. Well why don't you have a bit of a model driven app that stores those fields, manages the approval, and then once it's approved, you've got that record there for the future so you can always have it for regulatory kind of checks, but then it writes back to Business Central says approved, you can then make that as an order. Currently, that was kind of manual emails going through in Excel spreadsheets. That is essentially model driven app embedded inside of Teams with a Power automating flow, email, linked back to Business Central, all off a quote. And you sit there just going, currently, that's very manual. Now the process they're starting to get... It's gonna take a little time for them to work through everything that they want to go through, but that is going to be digitised on system and joined together and something that they can ultimately better report on, have better visibility of opposed to just lots of files sitting there in a SharePoint site somewhere that you don't really know where it's connected to.
- Okay. Great way to finish with a really nice working example of what we've done so well thanks for coming out, coming and sharing your insights and what you learned over at the Power Platform European Conference. Appreciate your time. And everybody who's obviously sat through this, we'll continue to dive more content on the podcast around the biz apps and the Power Platform throughout the year. But thank you for joining us today and if you've got any comments or subjects you'd like us to cover, that's always a difficult topic for us. What should we cover next? So anything that you think might be useful, stick them on the comments, that will always be useful for us. So thanks very much and we'll see you soon on another episode of Tecman Talks Dynamics.
- Hello.
- And today we are going to have a little chat around Power Platform, focus on that today. And predominantly Power Platform's been around or probably that name's been around for what, a couple of years now? Two, three years. Some of the products a little bit longer.
- Yep.
- But obviously this idea of a low code or a no code, it's probably a little bit of a stretch, but a low code solution for a lot of end users, developers, whatever you want to call them, to take some of those tools and build off our core products. Has been fantastic. But they've always been quite new products. There's been some gaps, some concerns around how certain things are done.
- Yep.
- And we're starting to see the products mature now and I know you were off... We're recording this really early in July '23, and you were off a couple of weeks ago at a conference over in Dublin.
- Yep.
- All about the Power Platform, nothing but the Power Platform.
- It was, yeah.
- And you came back quite enthusiastic about some of the changes that we're seeing in the product.
- Yep.
- And so we thought we'd have a little chat around that. So is there a general overview of the conference that you could just sum it up?
- So it's the second time that this conference has ran. It's called the European Power Platform Conference. It's ran by a team that have historically done a lot around Azure SharePoint type conferences. And I think get good attendances. But from our point of view, we thought that... They did it for the first time last year, got about 500ish people attend. We didn't go. And this year we thought, do you know what it's probably... We should go explore what that conference does and what the content is to see if we can take some nuggets of knowledge to go. And there were some people from Microsoft attending, so Charles, obviously who heads kind of the whole of Power Platform for Microsoft. April, who... He's kind of bigger range, kind of Power automate and flow. So there's a good few people that flew over from Redmond in Microsoft and those that don't know, that's kind of where Microsoft kind of are based kind of from a HQ point of view to where a lot of the kind of the key people are. So they flew over, we spent kind of four days, three, four days in Dublin. Took one of the team as well with us. We did a workshop day to start off with, learned a little bit more hands-on kind of workshops experience, kind of learning some of the build techniques of certain areas that maybe we hadn't spent too much time looking at already. And then two full days of kind of traditional conference. Now I guess the headlines are last year was 500 people, just over 500 people that attended. This year, just over 1200 people attended. And that was across 41 countries. And there was a mix of partners like us and then there was also probably a number of end users. And I'll probably say where they're probably quite large organisations as well that they've taken the time to say, do you know what, I'm gonna send my business systems team and web business analysts to see, go and explore more of the Power Platform. Or they're already signed to use a , how do we kind of learn kind of best practises and stuff like that. So it was well attended. The sessions were ran by MVPs, by Microsoft, by people in the community and stuff like that. So there was a lot of stuff ongoing. Microsoft did the keynotes and the keynote on the main first conference day was led by Charles. And from our point of view, obviously the big thing is that, I can't remember the exact number, I wanna say something like 36 million or something like that, active Power Platform users every single day.
- Wow.
- Now that's not organisations, that's people, that's individual licences and stuff like that. But that's huge. But as Microsoft said that they've hardly touched the surface yet with it. So I think the other thing to note, the world of AI. We've talked a lot about other podcasts and AI and ChatGBT and all that kind of stuff. That's a big thing in the Power Platform, making that work for you with kind of AI models whether it's open AI or you can create your own now. But I think more than anything, is that what you are starting to see, especially with the toolkit in the Power Platform, is you're starting to see a level of maturity. And I think that sounds a little bit strange given the product and the tools are still so new. But there is a level of, well, hold on a second, a traditional first party biz apps have got these sets of functionalities, these controls, these best practises. Well why hasn't Power Platform got it? And I think what was reemphasized more than anything as one of the key messages of the conference was the these aren't toys. It's not a have a go, see what you can do, go report to somebody else in the business and if it works, great. If it doesn't, don't worry about it. At the end of the day, it's a platform inside of your organization's environment that needs to make a difference and has impact on no matter what you do. So it's designed to be a tool and a toolkit, not a toy for people to have a play with.
- Okay, so it's not like a hobbyist-
- No.
- And it is something that can bring value to the business.
- And that's where we've talked about a little bit previously where we've talked a little bit about the citizen developer bit. What is a citizen developer? And what does that mean to an organisation that's using the Power Platform? You mentioned at the start, Power Platform, it's no code, low code. Well actually, if you look at the conference a couple of weeks ago, it's got at the end of it, low code, no code, pro code.
- Right, okay.
- So Microsoft is saying that, hold on a second, this isn't... They aren't like tracking a little bit on this low code, no code piece. It is a proper kind of system tool.
- But I guess it's a tool that a lot of people can turn their hand to.
- Yes.
- As someone who thinks in a particular way, a logical way, you could create something fairly easy and comfortable.
- Yep.
- But if you want to use that tool set to be a full-time developer or someone who can have those skills, you can take what's in the toolbox and really build something that's incredibly functional.
- Yep.
- Now we're talking about it'll have the governance and the controls around it that you would need.
- Yep.
- And as you'd expect probably from a development tool. So I guess it's like if you're going buy a power tool or something from a DIY shop. If you've not got the skillset set to use it, you might be able to drill a hole in the wall or you might be able to do something way better as well. So the tool can do way more than maybe the average person, but you can at least get some benefit from it.
- Absolutely. And I think the idea is that it's starting to get to the point where businesses, people, are starting to understand with the information that's out there, with the community that's available, in kind of the forums that Microsoft provide, social media in terms of Twitter space, LinkedIn, et cetera, and as well as these conferences now. The knowledge share that you've probably seen with the biz app space, with Business Central, with CRM, with FNO or finance supply chain management, et cetera, that have been there now and quite established for a period of time. Power Platform is very much kind of getting to that point where there is that true community where... And belief that this is a platform that wasn't just a flash in the pan and wasn't just a, oh well maybe, but it doesn't really fit the bill. So it sounds nice but we don't do it.
- A couple of questions, just roll back. You mentioned I think it's 36 million active users. So to clarify, clients as a active user, is that to consume the data or is that creators of apps? I assume you need a licence to consume don't you as well?
- That be both. So how the Power Platform technically works is that whether you are consuming that tool as part of your daily work or that daily workflow.
- It could be you're using an app that sort-
- Yeah, or you're using an app, et cetera. The thing with the Power Platform is that those licences, you can, with a Power automatic licence, with a Power app licence, with a Power Page licence, there's different types of how it all works. But a lot of the time it's like, well if I've got the licence I can not only just use it and consume it, I can make it at the same time. And then that just becomes permission level of what you can or should and shouldn't do.
- Okay, so that one's clarified. That makes sense. The other big question I always think pops up around Power Platform, especially now you're saying you're getting more complexity in the toolset is when's the right time to use Power Platform, when should we be using maybe the Corebiz app, whether it's CRM, Business Central. Is that defined or is that open to some level of interpretation?
- I still say, well it is definitely open to a level of interpretation and I think it will remain as a level of interpretation. There are people... So I'll say there are probably traditional finance and supply chain management, Business Central partners. I'll park CRM for a moment. Those partners that if they don't do Power Platform today or they don't do CRM and that's all that they do, they will probably continue just to use traditional code for those tools and develop inside of those tools opposed to looking at Power Platform of what that can do. If you're a CRM partner and you do BC et cetera, well you are using a lot of the Power Platform anyway. You are using kind of rules, model driven apps. You are potentially using CRM Canvas apps with it as well, using Power Automate. To an extent, like I said before, CRM and Power Platform are kind of very much kind of the same thing in terms of the toolkit that you've got available. I think in terms of training the business case of what do we do, there will always be a case of do I use Business Central or do I operate in the Power Platform. Do I use a third party tool or do I do it in the Power Platform? There is always that danger that there is a tool out there you can buy on an app store, et cetera. And then there is an inkling that someone else in your organisation sit there going, well actually I'd rather go and develop that myself. You've gotta have a proper return on investment and a reason why you'd go and create something that's already out there that's a bit more standard because otherwise all you're gonna create is a lot of technical debt. And from that perspective, there's gotta be business certification. So I think it's still open to interpretation, but I think what you're doing is when this Power Platform toolkit now or has been, it can work very well with the rest of your business applications, is that it isn't a case of I've gotta do that over here, this over here. It's a case of actually I can just extend what I need inside of Business Central, and use the Power Platform to do it for me. And I can write rules, logic, et cetera. And I can be flexible with how I do it. And I can take it to market that way opposed to having to get a traditional developer to go and sit in code in Business Central. Now I'll be clear, in Power Platform, you've got to have a technical mindset to go and create flows, et cetera. It's not just a standard end user to go do it. You've got to have a technical kind of mindset and capability to do it. But at the the same time, you don't have to be a full kind of developer that's sitting writing kind of Visual Studio Code and stuff like that every day. Whereas the platform can allow it. But the idea is that you don't have to go that far. Now I think from my point of view, the platform is maturing enough and has to mature. So going back to your point where you were talking about how many users, well at that level of users, we've got to have a level of best practise and governance. Without it, well it's gonna cause Microsoft an absolute mayhem for their platforms and managing those platforms in the background, but in terms of the whole business, well how do you manage it in terms of your business where people have got this app, that app, the other app, and who should be using what and why should they be using et cetera. And I think that's where a lot of the theme of the conference as well and the message of the conference is what are the best practises that you want to put into place?
- Yeah. Well let's move on to that. 'Cause you talked about the products maturing and I guess one of the big drivers and those arguments to keep stuff within the Corebiz app was you had all these controls that weren't out there. So what's been added that you think is beneficial and gives a reason to maybe look at Power apps to do certain things?
- I think in terms of some of the stuff that's been added that helps with the governance and the management and some of those pieces. Managing environments are one thing that they're trying to put in the tool, well, they now have, that talks about kind of usage rights, licence reports, solution checkers, how you build kind of Power apps and what you're allowed to do in the environment and what you can then put it with. The reality as well in terms of on the governance and the management on top of that is what they're starting to give a level of that works with other tools and other applications that adds a level of control is that kind of monitor and performance piece, I think.
- What so if something's running slow, you can pinpoint what, is that what you're talking about performance?
- It's not as far as what I call telemetry that you're getting with Business Central at this moment in time you. It will tell you...
- Let's forget that telemetry has only really been in Business Central probably the last three or four years.
- Yeah, there is a level that it will say how long the flows have taken to run. Now you've probably gotta look at the average flows over period of time to understand whether that's quick or slow from that perspective. So you've gotta probably take some history to understand, well, has it degraded over a period of time. Now Microsoft are trying to bring out kind of more functionality that you can create logs that last a longer period of time. So you can start to create trends and analysis, say. Well actually is my Power Platform degrading performance-wise over a period of time. There's also kind of tips and tricks of how you make sure apps don't run slow. 'Cause the idea is it's very easy to go... You sit and read about, I can create an app for visitor system, I can create an app for a field engineer, I can... Et cetera. You go create it, you point at some tables, you do et cetera. Oh yeah, there you go. Then all of a sudden you expose it to 20 people. You expose it to 100 people. And you don't think, actually, what I should have done is built it a slightly different way to think about the performance. Obviously with a first party app, Microsoft already kind of architected it in a way that it scales.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- Whereas your app, your piece of functionality that you are creating, what have you done to consider your...
- Make it as efficient as possible.
- And most people haven't today. They've just gone, I'll build it and there you go, I've created you something. And they've not thought about those types of things. So Microsoft are trying to give you more I guess tools that more or less sits in the background of the Power Platform that isn't the sexy stuff that people say, oh look how cool this is. It's probably more cool stuff for people like us to say, well actually we can think about what you're doing that's good and what you're doing that actually needs to be revisited because you're gonna cause yourself some pain. Now we've seen pain on performance things massively in Business Central over the years and NAV and the old AXE and the old traditional CRM. If you do things in the wrong way, you will hinder your system. Power Platform's no different to that. But the idea is that because it's been hard and you've just been given this talk of no code, low code, it's just get off and do it, I don't think there's been a mindset to say you need to think about what you're doing. And I think that was a lot of the messaging from the conference. You need to think about what you're doing because whatever you do does have an impact.
- Okay well let's push onto an individual... One of the Power apps, which is Power Automate.
- Yep.
- And can we give some examples of things that they've improved on that which is gonna help?
- So right now, they've obviously added comments recently. It's been about a little while. So you can add comments to what your flows are doing.
- So would that appear... So if someone's looking at your code later, there's there's some dialogue around it.
- Yeah. Within the flow and the steps, you can add comments within. So you can say what it's doing because otherwise all you're doing is looking at kind of schema conditions, loops, filters, et cetera, and you don't really understand what it's doing. Those comments can add context to say within the tool, the app, et cetera that you're using it with, this step is doing this bit in the system.
- Okay.
- So it's a bit like a developer like commenting code to an extent. This is what's happening. So from a support perspective, it's easy to look back at if someone else has gotta pick up your flow that no one else has touched previously. And then off the backend of that, they have also now going to introduce between August and September a couple of things which will come into, I think it's public preview, but we get our hands on it. Firstly, versioning. Bit like, think like SharePoint or you create a piece of code in another system and you take copy of that code, you version it and the idea is you've always got that previous version available that you can roll back to if necessary. Currently today in power automating workflows, you don't have that.
- Or you'd have seven completely separate naming and then bring it back-
- You have to kind more or less create a completely different flow and then go do you know what... But versioning, we hope that you're gonna be able to kind of roll back between versions as well. So the idea is if that flow, you put like ah, broke something, we'll roll back to a previous version that that we know did work, just didn't have the-
- Quick solution.
- So that's coming. Also the ability... There's this concept and it's very loose at this moment in time, but monitoring performance of flows. So they're talking about kind of being able to give you an insight into the kind of management area of Power Platform that gives you some insights to how your flows are performing. Which goes back to a point that you made earlier. Bit like going to long running flows, what's good, what's bad, what you need to do something, work around. At this moment in time is that that's lacking. You can go create, but unless you go and create your own kind of flow management flow, well you don't really have that much in the background. And I think the idea is that I can only assume that partners as well as Microsoft are getting lots of queries to say, well why has that now gone slower? Why is this working like this? It never used to be like that. Now this is giving you the ability to pinpoint it and actually diagnose it and support it and do something about it. That's the start of it. And then also that comes hand in hand with Microsoft doing log retentions. So by default, unless you save it elsewhere, Power Automate will log your flows, your history for 28 days and then they delete it. They don't want it on their platform. They're not gonna just include it free of charging. They can't stand the licence. They go, well do you know what? Now we're gonna give you the ability to put it in a separate retention area. I'm sure Microsoft will find a way to charge you for that storage, but the idea is that you then can just do... That will help with your monetary performance and your analytics over time.
- Yeah, 'cause you go backwards.
- So it is a... Power Automate I think is probably getting a lot more of the... As well as the overall environment you can turn to be managed, Power Automate is getting a lot around kind of best practise, in my view, around what you should and shouldn't do and tools to help you analyse and stuff like that. Because very much it is the workflow tool that is cross application. So whether it's talking just into the CRM, CRM to BC is talking to BC and Word is talking to BC and Excel is talking to BC and Shopify, whatever it is, because that tool is just going to be everywhere.
- They're still releasing lots of connectors for different-
- Yeah, absolutely. There are lots of connectors and you can go create your own connector. So the platform is kind of, as long as you've got a REST API where you're connecting it to, Power Automate goes, yeah, no problem. I can create that. I can go pull, push data. Unchange, delete, whatever you want it to do. I say, in principle. It's very flexible. So with that being able to be used arguably in lots of places, my view is that that's why Microsoft is spending so much time doing a bit more governance around it.
- Okay, okay. So Power Automate's had quite a lot put in it. Anything else around Power Pages or...
- Power Pages. So it's a bit of a techy one what we learned at the conference. And it was coming anyway, but bootstrap is kind of the... In terms of like the styling technique from a web design developer point of view. And currently Power Pages are on an older version. And it's going to go to... And Microsoft are gonna bring it up to what the community and typical kind of bootstrap people are used to in bootstrap version five, which brings with the updated features but also brings Microsoft up to the level that they should be at. Now that's gonna be available we believe over the summer months, but it means that anybody that's on it, it's not just a point, click, there you go. I'm now at the next one. There might be conflicts as you go through to kind of take your current system, your current Power Pages website tool portal from one version to the other version.
- So is that a design?
- It's the design, yeah. It's the layout. It's the ability... It's kind of liquid, et cetera. It's the ability to what CSS Style Sheets, et cetera. It's what the look and feel of the skins of what those web pages, those portals look like essentially. And bootstrap V5 is kind of the latest version of that styling technique.
- Okay, okay. So we'll move on down. Is there anything else in terms of the individual apps or...
- The only one thing for me, and one big thing that came out the conference as well that what we took out and learned a little bit more that will help us as a partner as well is how to make apps look a little bit sexier. Because Power Apps you can create no problem at all. Create a table, create a page. You can see it on your phone or your tablet or whatever. And it talks back to whatever you want it talk back to and it's functional, but historically, it's looked a bit naff. Very kind of block, clunky looking. Even though it's functional and it works well, clunky looking. Now there are creator kits available. There's plenty of styling techniques that people are now starting to share with the community and stuff like that to... And kind of make it very kind of Google kind of orientated as well in terms of like the soft boxes and the ticks and the crosses and the colouring schemes and the kind of like transparent glass frontend on the buttons and stuff like that. There is now lots of techniques available to go and do it. Now we've gotta sit there and go, we can spend ages playing to make it look lovely, but our customers aren't gonna spend lots of time paying us to make it look lovely. But I think now we're at a point where the tool is functional but we also need to make it look a bit better. And we've probably got more tools available now and more resource available now than we've had previously. And even in the early days, it was typically going back to style sheets and stuff like that that you'd have to overlay onto your Power apps. Now you don't always have to go and do that. There are components and things inside of the... Available in the community and available just out of the Power platform that actually you don't need a web developer or you don't need a style sheet to make it look nice.
- So one of the other things you'd mentioned before we sat down today, which probably speaks to our wider audience who are traditionally used our Business Central episodes on Tecman Talks, I know. Something has also been released around those triggers. I know this was not at the conference, this thing in the last 24 hours.
- Yeah, this was yesterday evening on Twitter.
- I did see you retweet it so I thought I'd throw it in there.
- Oh, thanks.
- No preparation, you can give me what's going on there.
- So Business Central has this concept called "Events". It's a bit like a workflow. The idea is something happens and do something. So business events in Business Central, you can create some custom ones but then there are also some standard ones that Business Central and Microsoft allow you to do. So upon an event happening, this business event triggers. Now what you're going to be able to do now is you're going to be able to connect Power Automate to that. And as a result of Power Automate connecting to it, it can go do something. I.e. go notify, go send a message, go do something, go update CRM and put that order record or that shipment record to complete. Go and... Dare I say, you connect your custom trigger and you ship a product at the warehouse. You then connect with kind of a shipping agent integration or you connect it to a courier. That courier returns you back a tracking number. Goes into a specific field inside a Business Central against that shipment, that shipment's posted. Shipment posted, trigger goes, trigger says, post, no problem at all. Power Automate runs. Well if that field of tracking number contains data, go pull the field which says what the courier was, go pull that tracking number and send the customer an email, with that message. Or even better still, with Power Automate connect it to a text message service and send the customer a text message. How used are we, personal lives, when something gets shipped from an online website that we've gone to that we get a text message saying it's been picked, it will be with you so and so, or Hermes have now or Evri or DPD have now got your post and it will be delivered between da da da and da da da. The idea is that we're not gonna get to that level 'cause we don't know the time scales, but we can say as a customer going, it's now left our premises and it's with you. Again, that whole customer journey piece enabled better with these kind of triggers.
- It shows like our personal life where we've got used to, as you said, having that tracking ability. We wanna know that it's coming. Is now coming into the business. It becomes normal doesn't it and expected. So that's available...
- In principle, that's starting to be available roughly about now, as the the latest updates I believe from Microsoft in terms of their monthly updates go through. I believe those business event triggers is about to be available with the Power Automate connector.
- So again, we're seeing that... You talked right at the beginning as we start to wrap up that maturity of the apps that we are seeing Microsoft continue to invest in launching these business event triggers where.. In certain biz apps that we can then hook straight into the Power app platform.
- Yes. And I think it's a... Going back to your point where its case of the areas and the reasons and the business case of why you use it or how you use the platform. I think Microsoft aren't defining exactly when and how you should use it. That is still the decision of the customer, the partner like us to help customers educate of what you should use it for. But with Microsoft doing things like this around the triggers in Business Central, it allows people to go away and think, oh, could it... I've never been able to do that really before unless I go and write a load of code. Now I've still gotta go create a flow and a trigger and all that kind of stuff to make it work. But it starts to kind of bring kind of these ideas front and centre line. Go, can I? And we go, yeah you can. And I think from our perspective, the maturity across the tools and then the expansion of the tools going into more areas and more capability in things like Business Central is sitting there going, the Power Platform isn't just something that sits on the side and you've got Business Central here. Power Platform you could argue is layered whether you wanna say on top or underneath of Business Central. And you are using that platform to help enhance and give a better experience to a user, but also ultimately your customer experience as well. So it is very much kind of going hand in hand with each other to say, well if you're not using the Power Platform with Business Central, you're probably already behind the times. It's a bit like if you weren't using Power Platform with CRM three years ago, you're behind the times.
- So we know there's huge demand and interest in this. We ran an event six weeks ago or whatever for our Techman customers. And we had around 64 people come. We had to close the bookings and they nearly all turned up, which is quite unusual for an event. You normally get quite a high dropout. We saw a load of enthusiasm there and loads of questions. Microsoft were here presenting. So we know the interest is there. We know that the product continues to evolve, mature, become a better solution. Obviously from your team's point of view, we know for our customers, we're more than happy to have those conversations where it's going. We've also got a couple more events coming up in October. We've got our customer day, which we do every year, but we were extending that by a second day this year where we're doing more technical and deep dives, hands on, bring your laptops, longer sessions, 90 minutes or whatever. I'm sure there's gonna be some Power Platform content over both days.
- Yep.
- Course that's for Techman customers. We'll throw that out there. Save the date, will be going out this week or two. So that's good. So we're trying to help customers and end users...
- ...Create those business cases as well.
- Yeah, create the business case, get the benefits. We know there's... I mean, we were talking about this, there's the planning beforehand about why are we doing this? Like you said, don't just dive in. What's the licence implication? We talked about content creators or consumers that you need a licence so we can help with the... Making sure you've got the locked licence correct. And we've got it in the most efficient way of doing it so it's saving you money. 'Cause Microsoft have improved the licences. I know we've done this already on a podcast.
- They have.
- Power Pages has improved definitely, hasn't it?
- Yeah. Power Pages. They've improved kind of power ups is that they... Again, I know Microsoft have updated their kind of pricing and done the 9% kind of price alignment stuff, but even if you state that, they lowered the cost of Power apps as well in the past kind of 12 months or so. So the ease to market from a cost point of view when it comes to the Power Platform, the barrier is actually quite low from a licenced cost point of view. It's the cost of of getting to the point that you truly understand what you want to achieve. Because again, you need that given path. And I think every organisation, these people and partners need to work collaborative to create that kind of roadmap. It's no different to, like I say, first party true Bizup system. You create a roadmap of what you want to ultimately achieve and if you can't outline that, then you're going to create a bit of a spaghetti of a mess. But I think from our point of view, we're already starting to see a... Even since that event for our Power Platform customer day, we've already got one customer that has worked with us and we've sat working with them because they wanted to take on some of it as well, around starting to think about how they take a quote to an approval outside of Business Central into approval process. But they also need to do some additional checks and checks and balances I guess, of that quote. It's not just a yes or a no based on the margin. It's a, I need to fill out the incident information, I need to check what products are on there. It was medical based industry so they've got some additional process to go through. Well why don't you have a bit of a model driven app that stores those fields, manages the approval, and then once it's approved, you've got that record there for the future so you can always have it for regulatory kind of checks, but then it writes back to Business Central says approved, you can then make that as an order. Currently, that was kind of manual emails going through in Excel spreadsheets. That is essentially model driven app embedded inside of Teams with a Power automating flow, email, linked back to Business Central, all off a quote. And you sit there just going, currently, that's very manual. Now the process they're starting to get... It's gonna take a little time for them to work through everything that they want to go through, but that is going to be digitised on system and joined together and something that they can ultimately better report on, have better visibility of opposed to just lots of files sitting there in a SharePoint site somewhere that you don't really know where it's connected to.
- Okay. Great way to finish with a really nice working example of what we've done so well thanks for coming out, coming and sharing your insights and what you learned over at the Power Platform European Conference. Appreciate your time. And everybody who's obviously sat through this, we'll continue to dive more content on the podcast around the biz apps and the Power Platform throughout the year. But thank you for joining us today and if you've got any comments or subjects you'd like us to cover, that's always a difficult topic for us. What should we cover next? So anything that you think might be useful, stick them on the comments, that will always be useful for us. So thanks very much and we'll see you soon on another episode of Tecman Talks Dynamics.
